Zodiac Spear??

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Zodiac Spear??

Post  huan1811 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:47 pm

Hi, I'm a fan of FF series and I've been playing FF Epic rpg for a while.
When I play FF series I usually collect weapon and armor.
And in this FF Epic rpg where I can find Zodiac Spear?
I already find Ultimate Weapon, Tournesol, Lion Heart and Masamune


Last edited by huan1811 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Mavs on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:50 pm

Wow, good job getting Tournesol! I didn't know it was in, might look for it now... guess that's where the Empyreal Soul came in.

About Zodiac Spear: I'll give you 2 hints.
1. Remember FFXII? Well, it's similar. I don't really know which exact barrels not to open, but some can botch it.
2. Advance in the main quest before you start looking for it.

That said, it's not a really good weapon... I've had (of the rare melee weapons) Assasin's Dagger, Zodiac Spear, Lion Heart, Excalibur 2, Ultimate Weapon and Masamune. Ultimate and Masamune are pretty much tied for first, I myself lean towards Masamune for better DPS, but Ultimate's critical is pretty awesome.
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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  huan1811 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:45 pm

You mean Main Gauche? The dagger with 30% evasion? I have that once but the bonus damage is low so I just sell it.
Yep, Tournesol is pretty hard and I just keep selling everything like Empyreal Soul, Soul Powder, all kind Crystal, and stuff.
Attack+200 ,all stat+15, 25% crit 3x normal damage (CMIIW), but no bonus attack speed. But if you have high level and high agi it doesn't matter anymore.

In Zodiac Spear case I have to advance main quest till I kill Echele? Zodiac Spear attack+275 ,str+25 and agi+15? Wow if warrior job equip that it will be +300 bonus damage (tempting)

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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Mavs on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:58 pm

No I don't mean Main Gauche, I was talking about rare weapons and such, like bazaar sells or map secrets.

About the attack speed, it does matter, even more so, when you're high lvl (I'm 1980 total level), 'cause by that time, 50 damage is nothing, but more attack speed (more dps) carries a lot more weight (since your normal attacks hit 2000-3000, and sometimes even more), though that 25% crit x3 sounds nice... wonder if it'd be worth it.

Think about it, if you have say, ~400-500 AGI, then a lousy +50% attack speed would be giving you something akin to +200-250 AGI (A.S. wise), and if you try a no +A.S weapon with a job whose primary stat's AGI, then you would end up with more damage, but less attack speed, so in the end you'd deal less DPS. That's why Excalibur's (not the second one) Haste skill makes it a pretty good weapon, I don't remember what the A.S. was on the sword itself, but for mage jobs that mostly don't have attack speed buffs that haste really made a huge difference. Gotta remember that, as you gain masters, your stats and therefore attack speed, don't increase while you do gain huge damage boosts.

EDIT: Sorry forgot about your Zodiac question. Well, I'm pretty sure that there's no trigger for it, don't think about my hint in a pragmatic kind of way, if you do that then you'll get stuck. It's a hint, think about what it's not saying Wink.
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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Karifean on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:29 pm

Warcraft III has a weird mechanic of capping attack speed pretty quickly. In FFERPG, 1 point of Agility gives +1% Attack Speed. Warcraft III caps Attack Speed at +400% (and that includes buffs, too). If you don't happen to pick Wizard or Priest, your Agility will usually not be at a terrible level, so picking Excalibur may not be worth the loss in other spectrums. Plus you have to reapply it every time you use Break Magic if you play with it. Probably the best weapon if you're going for raw damage and speed is Seitengrat, with its +200 damage and +75 Agility.

Then again, just having a Time Mage or Mediator on your team will cap out your Attack Speed anyway so you might not need Agility...

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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Mavs on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:18 pm

Oh, I didn't know that. Are you sure though? I could swear that every buff would make me hit faster but maybe it was just my head messing with me.

So that means we should just aim for 400 Agility or it's +A.S% equivalent? Also, if you take the Archer for example, with his Charge ability that reduces A.S. by 50%, would that be [(A.S. + A.S.%) - 50%] or [A.S + (A.S% -50%)]; I mean if it could be countered somehow by having enough extra A.S (be that +200% for the first case or +50% for the second one), though if it's the first case, I doubt that it would allow you to 'trick' the debuff that way and probabbly just caps at 400.

I was just mentioning Excalibur as a mid-game example Razz. Of course I don't think it's end-game material, but when leveling up jobs -especially mage jobs- and you don't have all the good equipment, it really did help me out.

P.S: Maybe it's a stupid question, but I was under the impresion that the higher your AGI is, the lesser the bonus was, kind of like 100+ AGI would only give you +0.5% or something like that.
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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Sworddragon on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:41 am

To calculate the optimum DPS we need to know how attack speed bonuses are technically applied. Are they working relative additive or multiplicative to agility? In the first case with 200 agility and +50% attack speed (for example due to a sword) you would have effectively 250 agility. In the second case it would end up with effectively 300 agility.

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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  huan1811 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:28 am

Well I try this morning with my lv.99 Samurai with agi 149 (+250) weapon Lion Heart 100% atk spd and with Tournesol with no bonus atk spd it seems there is no big difference to me.
With Samurai lv.99 and bonus dmg other Ultimate Master job with buff 25% atk dmg from Gaya..just think about 3x crit and passive skill 5x crit. Its around 10k dmg for 3x crit and 14-15k dmg with 5x crit. Just from normal attack from Samurai you will see crit pretty often either 3x or 5x (sometimes its double crit 3x and 5x from single attack, weird)

And where I get Seitengrat? Bazzar too?

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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Mavs on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:34 am

I didn't mean replace with those values, I was asking if it was possible to counter the reduced attack speed some skills, or creep debuffs have. I used Charge (Archer skill, +160% damage -50% attack speed) as the example. Maybe it wasn't as clear as I thought, so here it goes again:

We have an Archer, now, I'm not exactly sure how to measure attack speed and how the % would affect that, so I'm just gonna use A.S. %. So, our Archer has his base A.S, and through either base AGI, item's AGI, or A.S. increase items/skills, he's got exactly +400% A.S.
My question is this: if this Archer used Charge, which has a -50% A.S, when and how would that be applied?

I can guess the following:
A.S. = Attack Speed
Base A.S. = 100% A.S.

1. (100% + 400%) - 50% = 250% Actual A.S.
In this case, that -50% ends up taking 250% of the Archer's attack speed, though it effectively halves it.

2. 100% + (400% - 50%) = 450% Actual A.S.
However, in this case, it only reduces 50% of a whopping 500%, which would equate to a change of -10% in the outcome.

As you can see, if our regular A.S. (with an Archer who has +400%) was:
0.1 seconds per hit = 10h/s -> I don't think any job can reach that

Then, using Charge we could end up with 5h/s if 1's the case, or 9h/s if 2's the case.

What I was also wondering, was if this could possibly be compensated with enough extra A.S.
Meaning, if it's the equation that caps at 400%, or the outcome. If it's the equation, then there'd be no way around it, but if it's the outcome, then it would be possible to get +900% (an extra 500% A.S. over the cap) for the first case to end with max A.S, or a +450% (extra 50% A.S. over the cap) for the second case.

P.S: I kind of lost myself a bit there, pretty sure most of it was horribly wrong too. Haven't done much math in the last 4-5 years or so... maybe someone can make sense of this or put it in more accurate terms?
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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  Sworddragon on Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:53 pm

Mavs wrote:I can guess the following:
A.S. = Attack Speed
Base A.S. = 100% A.S.

1. (100% + 400%) - 50% = 250% Actual A.S.
In this case, that -50% ends up taking 250% of the Archer's attack speed, though it effectively halves it.

2. 100% + (400% - 50%) = 450% Actual A.S.
However, in this case, it only reduces 50% of a whopping 500%, which would equate to a change of -10% in the outcome.

This is exactly the same I mentioned above too. Case 1 is the multiplicative and case 2 the additive behavior. But it looks like Warcraft 3 is using a multiplicative math. After I have equipped an adamant armor I got the -75% movement speed which looked ~4 times slower than normal.

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Re: Zodiac Spear??

Post  huan1811 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:46 pm

Well today no luck with zodiac spear. Any other hint?
Does Zodiac Spear and Seitengrat have any % crit bonus?

P.S: if you want Tournesol try selling Nethril. After I sell that I check and found the "Sunflower". But I don't know how many and other item.

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