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Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:31 am

General Suggestions: I think it might be a good idea to add a "Mechanics page" either on this forum or on the wiki, because like alot of warcraft custom games there are plenty of complicated mechanics on FFERPG, and i don't think anyone wants to go on the forum and wait 24 hours just to find out if armor stacks with mana shield (i believe they are independent of each other) and like how illusions and white damage work, crit stacking, BAT etc. also along those lines it would be nice to describe whether or not spells do spell damage and generally describe some of the spells and abilities more in detail like Flurry of arrows
Gameplay Suggestions: Make game more mage oriented, you should obviously add an ultimate lvl 99 bow because you cant start like a whole bow type of weapon thing and then only have one bow, an ultimate version of Assassin's Dagger would be amazing but i understand that that is wishful thinking.

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Re: Suggestions

Post  Karifean on Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:24 am

Something like that could go on the FFERPG Wiki, but partly due to a massive overhaul of pretty much every single skill in the game coming in the next version, I haven't bothered yet. Some of the Warcraft-specific questions I'm unsure about myself. I'm pretty sure Manashield just directs damage that would hit your HP over to your MP instead - but don't quote me on that.

There is a Level 99 Bow, by the way. What do you mean by making the game "more mage-oriented"?

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:44 am

Karifean wrote:Something like that could go on the FFERPG Wiki, but partly due to a massive overhaul of pretty much every single skill in the game coming in the next version, I haven't bothered yet. Some of the Warcraft-specific questions I'm unsure about myself. I'm pretty sure Manashield just directs damage that would hit your HP over to your MP instead - but don't quote me on that.

There is a Level 99 Bow, by the way. What do you mean by making the game "more mage-oriented"?
Oh damn, i forgot to include my thank you in my suggestions thing. You and ILYAS and whoever else are the big devs have made probably one one of the best games i have ever played, Me and my bro Played alot of it way back when, and then i found out that the new versions were rolling and that there was a forum, and got back into it, so yeah thank you. Wow that's intense about the overhaul, but yeah there are still a couple of things i feel you should make available as far as mechanics that aren't spell stuff, like the Base attack time of each hero (that one's easy to find out), max attack speed percentage, how much attack speed and move speed is given from one point of agility(in warcraft i believe its 2%AS per point but i have no way of knowing if you guys changed it or not), how illusions and white damage work (from Dota illusions only benefit from white damage, but I'm not sure if thats warcraft original or if that was intentionally done). Also as far as the dagger thing, i swear the backstab doesnt proc at all, and i feel like it would be nice if you also made it proc when that enemy is targeting someone else to make it easier to land. As far as the "Mage-oriented" thing i meant make mages a bit more useful aside from oracle prophet and sorcerer, one more staff or so maybe a bit more equipment for mages (DEFINITELY another accessory aside from gandalf's pipe). But considering the fact that you are apparently overhauling the skills, I will wait till the New version comes out to complain about "Mage oriented". Also I saw no lvl 99 bow on the wiki, so could you tell me this bow's name?

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:53 am

Karifean wrote:Something like that could go on the FFERPG Wiki, but partly due to a massive overhaul of pretty much every single skill in the game coming in the next version, I haven't bothered yet. Some of the Warcraft-specific questions I'm unsure about myself. I'm pretty sure Manashield just directs damage that would hit your HP over to your MP instead - but don't quote me on that.

There is a Level 99 Bow, by the way. What do you mean by making the game "more mage-oriented"?
Oh wait, apparently its Seitengrat, sorry I didnt notice that it was a bow cause the wiki doesnt mention it being a bow or doing additional arrow flurry damage, plus there is a crit on it and archer already has a crit

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Re: Suggestions

Post  Karifean on Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:53 am

Warcraft III has a really annoying hardcap on attack speed. A unit's attack speed cannot exceed 5x standard speed, nor go below 1/5. I can't confirm it right now, but I think melee heroes have a base attack cooldown of 1.5 seconds, while ranged heroes and mages have 2 seconds. One point of Agility gives +1% attackspeed, so with just 400 Agility you've already maxed out (unless you get Slowed or something). This also makes attack speed boosts much more useless than I'd like them to be. Don't know much about how movement speed works.

Assassin's Dagger had some programming issues in the latest release, I've since polished up the trigger so it should work better than before. I'm also contemplating just making the attack damage buff last a few seconds instead of going away instantly.

I always found that Iron Duke works really well on all classes, mages included. It's just that powerful. But I hear you, I might come up with another high-level mage accessory.

I've only been working on the map since mid 0.9.2. I don't, or rather, I can't take any credit for anything prior whatsoever ^^ ILYAS and the ones that handled the map thereafter are responsible for most of the map ^^

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:15 am

Karifean wrote:Warcraft III has a really annoying hardcap on attack speed. A unit's attack speed cannot exceed 5x standard speed, nor go below 1/5. I can't confirm it right now, but I think melee heroes have a base attack cooldown of 1.5 seconds, while ranged heroes and mages have 2 seconds. One point of Agility gives +1% attackspeed, so with just 400 Agility you've already maxed out (unless you get Slowed or something). This also makes attack speed boosts much more useless than I'd like them to be. Don't know much about how movement speed works.

Assassin's Dagger had some programming issues in the latest release, I've since polished up the trigger so it should work better than before. I'm also contemplating just making the attack damage buff last a few seconds instead of going away instantly.

I always found that Iron Duke works really well on all classes, mages included. It's just that powerful. But I hear you, I might come up with another high-level mage accessory.

I've only been working on the map since mid 0.9.2. I don't, or rather, I can't take any credit for anything prior whatsoever ^^ ILYAS and the ones that handled the map thereafter are responsible for most of the map ^^
Dang, i was not aware that that was a Hardcap, i definitely thought that max AS could be modified, the worst part is if one could at least set the agi bonus lower than 1% then you could just halve the BAT's and lower the as gain of everything, but no, but also if you do end up keeping the "Take damage to do damage" ability on ninja, or if you move it to someone else you could have it transform your BAT instead considering the fact that even before you get your AS maxxed out its barely worth the trade while if it affected BAT i think that would be an advantageous but not unfair trade, also keep Flurry of arrows if you do an overhaul pls i think its a great concept and it doesnt fall off

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:33 am

Karifean wrote:Warcraft III has a really annoying hardcap on attack speed. A unit's attack speed cannot exceed 5x standard speed, nor go below 1/5. I can't confirm it right now, but I think melee heroes have a base attack cooldown of 1.5 seconds, while ranged heroes and mages have 2 seconds. One point of Agility gives +1% attackspeed, so with just 400 Agility you've already maxed out (unless you get Slowed or something). This also makes attack speed boosts much more useless than I'd like them to be. Don't know much about how movement speed works.

Assassin's Dagger had some programming issues in the latest release, I've since polished up the trigger so it should work better than before. I'm also contemplating just making the attack damage buff last a few seconds instead of going away instantly.

I always found that Iron Duke works really well on all classes, mages included. It's just that powerful. But I hear you, I might come up with another high-level mage accessory.

I've only been working on the map since mid 0.9.2. I don't, or rather, I can't take any credit for anything prior whatsoever ^^ ILYAS and the ones that handled the map thereafter are responsible for most of the map ^^
Also while poking around world editor, I found something, im not sure if you would actually be able to do this but it seems not that hard; when you scroll over attack instead of it just showing very fast could you put current Attack time, the reason i think this would be possible is that under Gameplay constants they allow you to modify the text for Attack speeds and, I see that you can put variables into string form

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:01 pm

By the way, this is extremely wishful thinking, and i understand this would not happen anytime soon, but i was thinking maybe what you could do is 2 ult classes, whether or not you bring in Heavenly knight back or not. It's just that that way the trees would end in both of their specialties, like for example, in the mage tree you have sorcerer and/or archbishop and that's the big nuker/bahamut summon but then you add like "Heavenly templar" or something who has alot of generally beneficial buffs and status effects who fills the big support/holy mage role, and correspondingly in the Combat tree you have Holy Swordsman and/or Heavenly knight and add in an ultimate agility (probably ranged) hero

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Re: Suggestions

Post  Karifean on Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:55 am

Adding in new Warrior/Mage classes is quite a possibility, but not before 0.9.5. I personally like a balance between (most of) the classes so the very idea of an "ultimate" class is something I'm opposed to. However, it's very possible that there be new balanced classes. I heard of some interest in a Bard class, which could fit in nicely in the Mage tree. But well there are still so many things I'd love to implement in this map...

I don't think it's possible to show attack speed in the tooltip, unfortunately. By the way, I checked; two points of Agility increase movement speed by 1. Unlike attack speed this seems additive so movement speed multipliers actually make a huge difference (as Adamant Armor should demonstrate^^).

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Re: Suggestions

Post  Mavs on Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:49 pm

-off topic- Oh, wow. Did you guys already start working on it? I thought it was in the process of dying a horrible death somewhere.

Anyway, I'm truly glad to see this forum active once again, and to hear that some kind of progress has been made towards a new version.

-on topic- I think I remember a map that actually did show your attack speed. Not completely sure if it was in the tooltip, or even what map it was... I'll try and remember what it was.
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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:40 am

But yeah my big ones are, have rage affect BAT(I of course am implying lowering the percentage bonus from 60%), more explanations on spells, items, and abilities especially custom ones like flurry of arrows and holy, speaking of which it says in game heals 1500 and does same damage but while i was on the weapons page in wiki I saw in the comments that Holy damage apparently scales to intelligence. Mechanics explanations somewhere would be nice like knowing the BAT makes a huge difference in who i want to choose as a hero, also an idea i thought of recently that is general but i think would be practical and helpful, is making a "dummy" in kalm where you can test how much damage you do.

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Re: Suggestions

Post  Karifean on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:13 am

The map has been pretty much the opposite of dying these past months, since June there's been some pretty good progress.

bobjoe123 wrote:But yeah my big ones are, have rage affect BAT(I of course am implying lowering the percentage bonus from 60%), more explanations on spells, items, and abilities especially custom ones like flurry of arrows and holy, speaking of which it says in game heals 1500 and does same damage but while i was on the weapons page in wiki I saw in the comments that Holy damage apparently scales to intelligence. Mechanics explanations somewhere would be nice like knowing the BAT makes a huge difference in who i want to choose as a hero, also an idea i thought of recently that is general but i think would be practical and helpful, is making a "dummy" in kalm where you can test how much damage you do.

BAT = Base Attack Time, I'm guessing. I'm not sure if it's conceivable to have an ability affect Base Attack Time like that. I know that the Golems' "pick up tree to fight with" ability is capable of that, and orbs can do that passively, but an active ability that just boosts the user, I'd have to look into that. Btw the tradeoff is much better at higher levels in the next version.

If someone could help setting up the respective pages I could put all the ability details and finer points of the classes on the wiki once the new version is out. Personally I don't really like having formulas in tooltips, it's often more confusing that helpful, but it is nice to be able to look them up.

I've thought about having a dummy, but ultimately that's something you can do pretty well in the Arena already.

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One more thing

Post  bobjoe123 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:54 pm

Also, I am not sure how big of a change you are making to FFERPG next version, but if it is only the skills, then I HAVE to say, please change Seitengrat crit to 3% or rebalance it, because currently it will not crit at all, apparently because warcraft has some like weird Pseudo random mechanic thing and it like rounds down or whatever, and the actual chance of a 2% crit occuring is 0%, I am taking this information i found from a random different forum page, but I believe it completely becuase i stared at my charachter with Seitengrat endlessly waiting for the crit to show up and it did not
Link: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/possible-do-custom-critical-strike-232398/

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Re: Suggestions

Post  Karifean on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:16 am

bobjoe123 wrote:Also, I am not sure how big of a change you are making to FFERPG next version, but if it is only the skills, then I HAVE to say, please change Seitengrat crit to 3% or rebalance it, because currently it will not crit at all, apparently because warcraft has some like weird Pseudo random mechanic thing and it like rounds down or whatever, and the actual chance of a 2% crit occuring is 0%, I am taking this information i found from a random different forum page, but I believe it completely becuase i stared at my charachter with Seitengrat endlessly waiting for the crit to show up and it did not
Link: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/possible-do-custom-critical-strike-232398/

Yes, it didn't work. It has been replaced with something that might be a little TOO useful... but we'll see.

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:52 am

Karifean wrote:
bobjoe123 wrote:Also, I am not sure how big of a change you are making to FFERPG next version, but if it is only the skills, then I HAVE to say, please change Seitengrat crit to 3% or rebalance it, because currently it will not crit at all, apparently because warcraft has some like weird Pseudo random mechanic thing and it like rounds down or whatever, and the actual chance of a 2% crit occuring is 0%, I am taking this information i found from a random different forum page, but I believe it completely becuase i stared at my charachter with Seitengrat endlessly waiting for the crit to show up and it did not
Link: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/possible-do-custom-critical-strike-232398/

Yes, it didn't work. It has been replaced with something that might be a little TOO useful... but we'll see.
Humph, well seems like i arrived to that one too late, but i am definitely excited for a hopefully TOO useful archer because it is currently my favorite class. As far as the explanations thing, honestly for now if I could have you answer a good amount of questions, i could slap together an all text page on the FF wiki just laying out the info that could very much help people for the endgame

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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:09 am

Karifean wrote:Warcraft III has a really annoying hardcap on attack speed. A unit's attack speed cannot exceed 5x standard speed, nor go below 1/5. I can't confirm it right now, but I think melee heroes have a base attack cooldown of 1.5 seconds, while ranged heroes and mages have 2 seconds. One point of Agility gives +1% attackspeed, so with just 400 Agility you've already maxed out (unless you get Slowed or something). This also makes attack speed boosts much more useless than I'd like them to be. Don't know much about how movement speed works.

Assassin's Dagger had some programming issues in the latest release, I've since polished up the trigger so it should work better than before. I'm also contemplating just making the attack damage buff last a few seconds instead of going away instantly.

I always found that Iron Duke works really well on all classes, mages included. It's just that powerful. But I hear you, I might come up with another high-level mage accessory.

I've only been working on the map since mid 0.9.2. I don't, or rather, I can't take any credit for anything prior whatsoever ^^ ILYAS and the ones that handled the map thereafter are responsible for most of the map ^^
By the way, I took some time to poke around the editor a bit more, and I've found a somewhat clumsy/timeconsuming(but not terrible) way to bypass the restrictions on Attack speed; I took the gloves of haste ability, made it a hero ability, and gave it like 20 levels(because i was just seeing if this would work), I made the AS gain for agility zero, and made a trigger that levels the ""Heroattspeed" ability according to agility, and it worked like a charm. So what i am saying you could do if you wanted attack speed boosts to stay more relevant is the following; 1. Halve all base attack times 2. Give all units an initial buff of -50% attack speed 3. do the hero attspeed trigger thing, so that for every 2 points in agility you earn 1% boost in Attack Speed 4. Halve all attack speed items and abilities
Now i realize that aside from potential lag a problem would be the fact that you would be losing a percent here and there, but the nice part is you wouldnt have to change any descriptions. Anyway, I am not at all expecting you to do this, but i wanted to share my findings, and if you do end up finding that balance-wise the game would be far better with higher attack speed cap then I feel like you should consider this idea, Cause i know its better than the concept of having an invisible unit attack or something like that, also while I'm posting pleeeeeease do the spirit of gaya consumables thing, i was checking the submissions sections and noticed some guy ask for that, and he went unheeded. That idea is liquid gold.

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Re: Suggestions

Post  psxlover on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:18 pm

bobjoe123 wrote: also while I'm posting pleeeeeease do the spirit of gaya consumables thing, i was checking the submissions sections and noticed some guy ask for that, and he went unheeded. That idea is liquid gold.
It's in the todo list, and I've done it in a test map back in 2011 but I never got to add it to the map (I don't even remember how it was working back then). I doubt it'll be in the next version either Sad
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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:40 pm

psxlover wrote:
bobjoe123 wrote: also while I'm posting pleeeeeease do the spirit of gaya consumables thing, i was checking the submissions sections and noticed some guy ask for that, and he went unheeded. That idea is liquid gold.
It's in the todo list, and I've done it in a test map back in 2011 but I never got to add it to the map (I don't even remember how it was working back then). I doubt it'll be in the next version either Sad
In that case could you guys could at lease make a couple of abilities autocastable? like Armor Break, Blind, and Archer's Charge.

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Re: Suggestions

Post  psxlover on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:53 pm

Armor break and blind are autocastable...
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Re: Suggestions

Post  bobjoe123 on Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:18 am

psxlover wrote:Armor break and blind are autocastable...
ah sorry, lol i could have saved myself alot of time knowing that its just that the icon didnt have the usual autocasting borers and i misinterpreted, in any case Archer's Charge is the biggest pain in the ass to reactivate, and its duration exceeds its cool down and can only can be cast on self. same with squire's accumulate.

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